Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

I've seen this talked around the internet a fair while. There are arguments about on if fiction shapes and influence a person and their perception of their world. It gets a bunch of discourse and has led to many debate, so I thought I would bring this topic here and see what KYM users would think of it.

The question is a bit nuanced and multi-faceted than one would think. I initially thought it would be on the same-ish topic as "does playing video games makes you violent?", which has no proven and sound evidence. Once I delve into more of the question and the debate around it, it might have some merit(?).

One thing that gets brought up is the Cultivation theory. The gist of this theory is that repeated television exposure through recurring patterns and images would create a shift on the individual's perception and their world that would align with their said shifted perception, though "television" has shifted into "media" in general as the definition evolved over the years, which includes fiction. One example that gets tossed around is Jaws, where of depiction of the shark, a great white to be specific, as a bloodthirsty monster that attacks human led to the general public being afraid of them and the shark in real life would get hunted down and killed, leading to them get endangered. However, new studies shows that sharks are more docile and rarely attack humans, causing only single digit deaths per year. Despite efforts to bring sharks into a more positive light, the depiction and fear of sharks still remain in the general public's consciousness even after over 40 years.

A more positive example would be education shows like Magic School Bus and safety shows like Danger Rangers. This is way more obvious as edutainment shows and safety PSAs/shows are made to teach kids and other people about various topics and safety tips using fiction as a backdrop or setting. Yes, Mr. Frizzle and her magic bus isn't real (bummer) and the anthro animal safety rangers don't exist (sorry furries), but the topics and morals they explain are real and can be applied outside of the show. For safety shows, their teachings can help kids and the public on how to stay safe and dealing with dangerous situations.

Some people refute this "fiction affect reality" because fiction is…well not close to reality obviously and it makes it very apparent. I already mentioned this earlier with video games causes violence and that has been debunked with no solid or sound proof according to many data. If the perpetrator does have a video game that had an "influence" on them, they are most likely not right in their mind to begin with compared to an average player playing the game. Not to mention this image below:

Many skills you do in video games don't stack up to the actual profession. Most of them are simplified and breaks realism for sake of a good gameplay experience. No, Cooking Mama will not make me a chef, and no, Ace Attorney will not make me a lawyer so GTA would not make me a killer…who gets invited by their cousin for bowling. If a video game does feature realistic objectives for various jobs and skills, it is most likely made for a simulation to prepare for that kind of job.

Also cases where people murder and do it because of fiction like the Slenderman stabbings and two Columbine shooters liking DOOM and using it to act on their plan means they are not mentally well to begin with and probably had other factors like outside and social influences that shaped them and just use video games as a vehicle for their acts. I've seen other people play Slenderman and DOOM and still came out fine after playing (maybe spooked but that's about it).

This topic and Cultivation theory has caused debate and discourse overall which also affected media literacy and led to other sub debates like portrayal of certain types of people, messages, politics and morals presented in a work and stories with problematic and taboo content. That last one especially since works like Made in Abyss and The Coffin of Andy and LeyLey has caused commotion due to taboo topics that are used like questionable NSFW depictions of kids and incest respectively. Also reason why lolicon (and its counterpart shotacon and cub) is still such a hotly debated topic is whenever the fantasy/simulation of uh…NSFW depiction of fictional minors could have an effect on someone. Some argue it's fictional and that they are aware of the moral wrongness when doing it in real life and do it in a fantasy world so no actual harm is done to actual children. And some compared lolicon making people a pedo an equivalent to the aforementioned video game making people violent. Some refute this as lolicon still acts on the feeling of the desire of a minor even if it is fictional and is different to that video game violence debate; with video games you generally have no relationship to anything you do that can be acted upon the real world. That and lolicon could start or even escalate things further with their desires.

Whew, that's a lot to cover. So does fiction affect/influence reality? Is fiction an escapism/fantasy of reality or a reflection of reality? Could art/stories change people that can help or harm them? Or are there other/outside factors that could be the one doing the changing? Is there a sort of responsibility when creating fiction/art if it does have an effect on people or is that out of your control?

from what I've seen, it affects your perception and perspective on subjects.

My dad earnestly believes that china is super healthy, well-protected, and morally correct because of the fictional proganda movies they produce lol.

Without knowledge, some people use fictional media to conflate their perspective on something.

You know that GTA will not make you a murderer, but it can certainly make you come up with a perception of the cities they're based on like San Francisco (San andreas) and the new upcoming one that takes place in a fictionalized Florida.

It also affects your perception of beauty or things that we find attractive.

I love Roxy and Loona because of the fiction I've consumed, I love women like Rika and Fantina.

But as long as you are able to differentiate reality and fiction then you should fine.

Science fiction is seen sometimes as an expectation for future tech development. It has certainly propelled the invested development of neurotech and ai over the years.

Heavily depends on a number of factors such as culture, the individual's mindset, etc.

To say fiction never ever influences reality is incorrect, as proven by various historical examples. But to act like every piece of fiction or every subject will have a large and immediate effect is incorrect as well.

I do think much more often than not, fiction will have negligible effect on a mentally healthy adult. Or rather, on average, fiction tends to have milder effects than not, if any.

I think Warhammer fantasy and Warhammer 40k has had a massive effect on culture, mostly negative but still

One common trend I've seen from culture war channels as of late is that "Entertainment is the canary in the coal mine for culture". What these people are trying to say is basically that Rey / The Sequel Trilogy caused a lot of the discourse in modern society. Ergo, by "fighting the culture war", these people think they are going to save society by begging Lucasfilm to remake the sequels or bring back Luke in his prime or something similar.

Personally? I'm not fully on board with that idea, specifically. I can at least understand media inspiring people to better themselves or do good things in society. One such example is culture war boomers wanting the next Superman movie to be good so that people are more inspired to be like him. Not fly and fight crime with super powers, but aspire to do good for the world in the same way Clark Kent would.

I feel more like the way media portrays social issues / hot-button talking points is more of a "symptom" than a cause. And for the most part, most people don't even want those types of things to be brought up so often when media like movies, TV shows, and video games also double as escapism.

there you are playing the PvP in your world war two shooter

and all of the sudden you're a Nazi

you didn't ask for this

you didn't choose this

yet there it is

and it's treated no differently than playing a British soldier

(yes that quote is still funny to me)

Jokes aside there isn't a real straight forward answer to this. I could go over every other example and it would probably just be repeating the examples already listed.

The Coffin of Andy and LeyLey is an interesting example because while it does apparently have an incest ending it never… came off as romanticizing incest? It just seemed more like the effect of living a dysfunctional family in a grungy setting, and the fandom itself romanticized the incest. But I started playing it and haven't picked up the game in a while so I could be wrong. Made in Abyss and other works I'm not as sure about, just because I never really got into it.

I think maybe where you find the most obvious example of fiction affecting reality is in propaganda. But propaganda itself are lies and half truths trying to push itself as truth, so I don't know if it would count. But there is fiction that is basically propaganda, with those Disney propaganda cartoons during WW2, and that Turner Diaries something book. Yeah the Disney cartoons are cute and no one but nazis would read something like the Turner Diaries but it still has some effect. And yeah I know those aren't the only examples.

Excuse my disorganized ramblings, but yeah it's just not something you can give a simple answer to.

Yes, to an extant
it very much dependant on a lot of things such as how strong the individual’s beleifs are, how strong their crtital thinking is, how old they are
Also on how the media portrays things and from what persoective the narrative is from